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KateMoloneyParticipant
Loaded some orders last night excluding CSE market listed stocks, had no problem. Running a very small account but not 100% confident I can rely on the backtest data.
Currently doing a manual check of backtested stocks vs the price / estimated market cap at the time of the trade to see if excluding CSE stocks rectifies the problem.
Have put some enquires into other brokers to see if they offer micro cap stocks in Canada.
Does anyone know a broker we could try?
Hi Kate,
Historical market caps are notoriously hard to resolve due to the complexity of capital markets.
Various complex/under-reported/late reported events cause this to be a very time-consuming exercise including:
Off-market capital raising
Share buybacks
Employee/executive share issues/vesting
Performance share issues/vesting
Restricted/escrow share conversions
Exercise of Company Options (aka Warrrants in Canada)
Convertible securities (such as debt-to-equity instruments)
Mergers
De-mergers/spinoffs
Complex capital restructuring
Since there’s no standardised reporting of market cap incorporating these (and other) events on a timely basis, it’s unlikely we can perform this accurately to the level required for backtesting at a retail price point.
Have you verified with your broker what the exact restrictions are for trading Canadian securities? Is it a market-cap basis? Or is a listing venue? What rules were used in the past? etc.
Best regards,Richard Dale, B.Sc. (Hons) Comp Sci
Norgate DataKateMoloneyParticipantFrom Richard at Norgate. I asked him if its possible to set up a watchlist of stocks that have a market cap of 400M or more.
Richard Dale (Norgate Data)Nov 15, 2022, 19:07 GMT+11Hi Kate,
PURE is the old name for the CSE. CSE originally started as an alternative trading venue for TSX-listed stocks but has grown to become a place of listing too.
There’s two things at play here.
The first is that you want to generate orders for stocks that are not listed on CSE. You could do this by creating a dynamic watchlist in the Watchlist library that excludes CSE. You might to consider excluding TSX-V NEX, NEO and possibly TSX-V, at the same time too. Alternatively, just amend your rule in AmiBroker to exclude those exchange(s) in your trading signal (e.g. AND MarketID() != 26 AND MarketID() != 27 AND MarketID() != 28)
For specifically filtering on the current (not historical) MarketCap you could also include that in your rules too. More details about how to access it here:
https://norgatedata.com/amibroker-usage.php#fundamentals
eg.Code:mktcap = NorgateFundamentals(“mktcap”);
The second is that you are trying to backtest on non-CSE listed securities (including those that have been delisted) or a marketcap-specific range. Norgate Data doesn’t have that capability, but we are checking the feasibility of having the capability of determining the listing venue for each date (at least back until the big exchange restructure in 1999).
Regarding CSE and NEO – they are relatively new listing venues and not necessarily just microcap companies. NEO is well-known for its CDRs and ETFs. CSE is known mostly for microcap and other “interesting” ventures, but there are a few current listings with more than CAD 400M market cap:
The good news is that since these exchanges are relatively young there’s not a lot of switching of listing from one exchange to another. It does happen but it should be relatively rare enough that it’s of no issue.
On TSX-V there’s only about 24 with a market cap above CAD 400M:
TSX-V is a little harder as companies have “graduated” to TSX in the past and also been demoted.
If you wish to trade the microcaps you’ll need to have a chat with your broker about exactly what restrictions they have in place and if there’s any mechanism to remove that restriction. I’d certainly be interesting about hearing what they have to say as it might also guide us on future developments.
Best regards,Richard Dale, B.Sc. (Hons) Comp Sci
Norgate DataKateMoloneyParticipantThank you Julian and Craig for your input.
Ran a backtest, CAGR down 2% and drawdown about the same.
KateMoloneyParticipantKateMoloneyParticipantFor present CAD watchlist.
KateMoloneyParticipantWith AB I can create a present watchlist without CSE stocks, but I can’t create a historical one without CSE.
Excluding CSE stocks on AB filter settings reduces historical list from 9755 stocks to 9004.
See how it tests now ….
KateMoloneyParticipantGot a little bit more research to do, but at this stage think I’ll be canning the idea of trading in Canada unless I can find a solution re: microcap stocks.
Either find a way to trade them, or eliminate micro cap stocks from the data with market caps under 400M and see how it tests.Norgate offered solutions which I don’t think are viable (eg trade TSX composite and Small Cap indexes).
I have tried increasing the vol filters on backtesting to reduce micro cap stocks. (eg average T/O 5 – 10M, 500,000 – 1M average shares traded)
CAGR 31% and 17% maxDD … checked the backtests and there are still stocks being traded with market caps under 400MI am currently playing with “All Canadian Past and Present: Excluding Smallcaps”…..
https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indices/equity/sp-tsx-smallcap-index/#overview
https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/regional-exposure/americas/#indicesKateMoloneyParticipantMore info RE: IB
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/lib/cstools/faq/#/content/30125910
IBKR accepts opening orders for only a limited number of stocks and ETFs listed on the Canadian Securities Exchange (CSE). Generally speaking, these stocks are limited to those having a market cap in excess of USD 400 million. Orders for other securities listed on the exchange are only accepted for closing existing positions.
KateMoloneyParticipantHi Julian,
Similar to you, I have set the average T/O to $2 – $2.5M
Will try the other settings on vol you described to see if it makes a difference.
Are you with IB Australia?
KateMoloneyParticipantJust thinking out loud, if there is a restriction with IB on microcaps, either have to use another broker or code something into system. See if it still stacks up without these trades….
Julian, have you had any issues with your orders?
KateMoloneyParticipantTerry, it says PURE microcap, and on IB those stocks have a little red mark beside the name.
Below from a quick google search.
I have the same issue. Where you able to resolve this? I did contact IB and they just told me IBKR would only offer opening transaction on CSE (PURE) stocks when the market cap > 400M CAD threshold.
KateMoloneyParticipantHi Terry,
I already have set up trading permissions on for Canada.
It just won’t let me trade micro caps for some reason. Have rechecked permission settings and can’t see anything missing.See what IB says…..
KateMoloneyParticipantKateMoloneyParticipantFinal issue to resolve. Waiting for IB to get back to me.
KateMoloneyParticipantI run the same rules for each universe.
The only thing I might change is the stretch e.g slightly higher stretch for the R2000 vs R1000.
Did the same exercise as you a while back and like you found that a new ranking improved the drawdown on one of the systems. Decided not to go ahead with it as further testing disproved the theory.
You’ve got to figure out what risk/reward you are willing to accept … and as long as its a robust system …
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