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January 27, 2021 at 2:54 am #102096TerryDunneParticipant
Hi all,
For a while now I’ve been wondering about the ‘best’ time to expire unfilled orders, mainly for MOCs but I suppose it could also be a question re mean reversion trades.
This morning I was at my desk at about 7.30 and not much had happened overnight. Then one of my limit entries was triggered.
Naturally, this ended in a loss – there isn’t a lot of time left in the session for the price to bounce and (I think, I don’t have any hard data) at this stage of the trading day the price is more likely to continue rather than reverse.
Has anyone had any opportunity to look at (say) 30 minute bars?
Does anybody delete unfilled trades earlier than 20 minutes before the close?
I’d appreciate any thoughts on this or any other aspects that I may not have considered.
Regards,
Terry
January 27, 2021 at 6:44 am #112905JulianCohenParticipantWell I used to exit at 3:40pm NY time….this did two things…One was keep the results closer to the backtest as in the backtest it will still take a trade at 3:59pm…The other was to allow me to check back and see over time if there was any benefit to be gained.
I did have a look after about 6 months and found it was really 50/50….no discernible difference to trades taken after 3 pm…some were up and some were down.
At the risk of applying logic, we are trading systematically after all and often what you think is sensible proves in testing not to be so, one would think that if a stock is falling at 3:30pm the chance of it going up before 4pm and making you some money is slight. However the stock market has all these dummy moves, players screwing around with the closes, pushing stocks one way and the other, and some of the winners after 3:30pm are probably due to that sort of thing.
So having said all that I am running at 3pm cut off now. I just figured that was as good a time as any.
January 27, 2021 at 6:50 am #112907ScottMcNabParticipantJust went and checked ..my cut off is at 3.05pm…no idea why that specific time but same ball park
January 27, 2021 at 8:08 am #112908JulianCohenParticipantProlly just trying to squeeeeeze that extra trade or two Scott
January 27, 2021 at 11:21 am #112910TerryDunneParticipantThanks for the information Julian, that probably saves me a lot of pointless work.
BTW, I’m at 3.40pm. I suppose there is no logic to changing that – as you say, the later the cutoff, the more in line with the backtesting it will be, and that’s what I’ve spent so much time on!!
3.05 is a unique time though…
Best wishes,
Terry
January 27, 2021 at 11:58 pm #112912OmarAouaneParticipantThis is an interesting topic, in today’s electronic/algo markets 30min can still make a difference. Even if after few months of trading/monitoring my MOC systems, my gut feeling is telling methat the bread and butter trades seem to be ones filled in open/first hours of session. Currently closing system around the last hour (manually so I “feel” the volatility of the market)
Another observation (a bit more tricky as it derails the MOC principle) from my backtest analysis, it seems to be profitable to keep the position overnight when the loss for the day is meaningful ( above the 6/8% range)
Anyone has been investigating this line of tought?
CheersJanuary 28, 2021 at 7:36 am #112919JulianCohenParticipantOmar Aouane wrote:Another observation (a bit more tricky as it derails the MOC principle) from my backtest analysis, it seems to be profitable to keep the position overnight when the loss for the day is meaningful ( above the 6/8% range)
Anyone has been investigating this line of tought?
CheersYes I am running a mean reversion system that holds overnight and sells on the open next morning. I think Dustin is doing the same. In backtesting it looks great….last few days not so much though
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